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Annoyed, I need to donate to use FMRTE

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fr3sh's avatar Group fr3sh 2011-12-22 20:40
gb 40 posts joined Mar 07, 2008
So to get any sort of use out of the latest fmrte, you need to donate?!?!

what the hell happened to the fm COMMUNITY???

whats happened to the days of nygreen and people who used to create these tools for the love of the game? are we now surrounded by people who have to make a profit on everything they do??

i sure as hell appreciate what these guys are doing, dont get me wrong, and i know a lot of you will say "well if you dont want to pay, dont use them" but come on!

anyone else feel the same?
This post was edited by stam (2011-12-31 00:41, 5 years ago)
RedArmy20's avatar Group RedArmy20 2011-12-23 11:58
se 3013 posts 16 likes joined Dec 22, 2007
hmm you cant use them anymore without donating? i thought u could?

its not donation if u cant use the product fully. then donation turns into buying...and surely SI themselves don't like that. and which i think is correct, FM is one of those games that gives u the option of editing a lot yourself and customize a lot. which is fantastic, and if people abuse that to try to get money is wrong.
Stam shows me a pics of his weddings(his wife signing papers), i comment on his wife:
ME: she is lovely mate
ME: well done ;)
Stam: yeah, I signed her to my team lol
Stam: she's a bargain, low wage :P
fr3sh's avatar Group fr3sh 2011-12-23 13:22
gb 40 posts joined Mar 07, 2008
yeh ive downloaded the new fmrte from his website, and when you try to save or do anything it asks for a key, and to get a key you need to donate. which i think is very very wrong.
Kiwi's avatar Group Kiwi 2011-12-28 20:12
nz 1279 posts 46 likes joined Aug 14, 2011
Here is what I am trying to do (being the cheapskate I am)

Get FM12 as cheaply as I possibly can...and I'll admit, I have been burnt already of this one. Got a "new" copy from ebay only to find the steam code had been used. Fairly unimpressed, and I think steam will kill the second hand game market.

Whatever I save on the RRP, I will donate to FMRTE, GS and here, purely because it is a community and this site and the add ons have given so much, and my wife would say has used at least 20 days of my life that I could have been doing other things with....
Stam's avatar Administrators Stam 2011-12-31 00:32
gr 2208 posts 746 likes joined Oct 03, 2006

Flashback

Back in the day (FM09) when Eugene (GS author) tried to make Genie Scout 'donationware' SI had a problem with that and he had to stop, even though he also released a free version with limited functionality.

Deja vu

Raul (FMRTE author) made his free version to be of limited functionality as it won't allow saving edits... basically the editing functionality is a premium feature; and editing is what this program is known for.
Apparently SI didn't take any action yet and from what I've been reading on Twitter, they don't consider this illegal, and that is a surprise for me.

Invalid reasoning and comparison
Someone said that SI had a problem with Eugene because he based Genie Scout on the code of Nygreen, which was released as open source when SI hired him. This is not true at all, as GS has no traces of Nygreen's code in the last couple of years.

Our official reaction as fmscout.com

I announced that we won't be supporting FMRTE while there is no fully functional free version that at least allows editing. I still keep page for it on this site, but download link just points to the official FMRTE site with a warning about the premium version.

A SI affiliate principle

As a SI affiliate we have agreed to support free content, while monetizing is only allowed in waiving limits or annoyances for something you can already use for free. We support this principle.
Genie Scout is based on that rule. The public version is fully functional, just using 2 ads and has a couple of minor features that you can live without. The 'g' version is for contributors only (either people who donate or translate the program into a new language), and this way everyone's happy and we have no complaints.
This post was edited by stam (2011-12-31 00:40, 5 years ago)
Whatever happens in your every day life, coming here should be an escape from it; so cheer up and talk FM :)
robouk's avatar Group robouk 2011-12-31 09:29
gb 5 posts 1 likes joined Dec 04, 2010
@ stam

i cant speak any higher of you. You have my full respect for your post stated there. Its about time people started to stand up and take notice of things and no give in to pressure.

I know people add downloads on a pay per download site, and they make some money ok, but to donate to use a programme that has been free for so long.

Also is *SI* having double standards with the GS and not with FRMTE
fr3sh's avatar Group fr3sh 2011-12-31 17:18
gb 40 posts joined Mar 07, 2008
thanks red and stam for picking up on this thread.

so the code that fmrte uses, was that made open source for the current author or has he created this?
fr3sh's avatar Group fr3sh 2011-12-31 22:04
gb 40 posts joined Mar 07, 2008
and a happy new year to everyone!
Stam's avatar Administrators Stam 2012-01-01 18:46
gr 2208 posts 746 likes joined Oct 03, 2006
#38918 fr3sh : so the code that fmrte uses, was that made open source for the current author or has he created this?

I think he based his program on Dr. Bernard's open source project Ingame Scout/Editor Framework, and FM Assistant followed a similar approach.
So yeah, in that sense his starting point was an open source project.
Whatever happens in your every day life, coming here should be an escape from it; so cheer up and talk FM :)
naff123's avatar Group naff123 2012-01-01 20:38
gb 110 posts joined Nov 13, 2010
An Admirable stance taken by Stam this is why I use this site as Stam is a true FM fan

I tried to buy a town in the south of France.

The locals were Avignon of it. :D
payne 007's avatar Group payne 007 2012-01-02 08:10
us 26 posts joined Aug 28, 2011
i use the latest fmrte without donating,just copy the key he put on his site for the trial version anytime you want to edit,it'll save!....lol
MarqueeMoon's avatar Group MarqueeMoon 2012-01-03 21:35
00 2 posts 3 likes joined Jan 03, 2012
I don't think it's wrong - There is a lot of work behind it and you can just give a euro, a dollar, a pound - you won't be getting any poor from it, and the program is just very well and helps a lot.

People need to stop thinking everything is free, because one day things will cease to exist,
music, programs etc. FMRTE is a great program.
fr3sh's avatar Group fr3sh 2012-01-03 22:24
gb 40 posts joined Mar 07, 2008
I guess being an FM and CM old boy, ive been spoilt through the years with free programs. I just dont see why now, after 11 years of playing these fantastic games, I should pay someome for something that no author has ever charged for.

The FM community for a long time has been great, people creating programs for the joy of it, for helping others. Now it seems all the authors want to do is make money out of it. I totaly agree with what genie has done, a fully working program, donate if you wish (which i will).

I think for me, as stam said, its the prospect of 'donationware' I just dont agree with.
Stam's avatar Administrators Stam 2012-01-04 03:16
gr 2208 posts 746 likes joined Oct 03, 2006
MarqueeMoon:
I don't think it's wrong - There is a lot of work behind it and you can just give a euro, a dollar, a pound - you won't be getting any poor from it...

I think the approach of forcing a donation is wrong.
He could just say FMRTE is no longer free, and it's instead sold for at least 1 EUR because he needs to justify the time spent on this project and hopefully make a profit; either that or no more FMRTE for the world. That should be a reasonable explanation.
Some kind of warning beforehand would be a decent thing to do as well. It's a bit odd to go premium-only all of a sudden for the same FM version you released a fully functional free version weeks ago.

A lot of people around the FM community have worked hard for various projects and reasons, but still share their labor for free. Are they idiots? The truth is money changes most people, and this usually happens once we have to make a living on our own, away from the parents.

MarqueeMoon:
...and the program is just very well and helps a lot. FMRTE is a great program.

I've never used it and I shouldn't be qualified for an opinion about its usefulness. However, what I've realized is that FM would crash and corrupt savegames with increased frequency since people started using that program.

Of course people would blame SI for a buggy FM at any case, because they wouldn't accept it was something wrong they did. In the end, the author himself makes the program available as beta with a 'use at your own risk' warning...

MarqueeMoon:
People need to stop thinking everything is free, because one day things will cease to exist, music, programs etc.

I totally agree, but it wasn't like he didn't get any money in return apart from recognition. Obviously most of it should have been used to cover the site expenses, but I still believe it's his choice to make the program 'donation-ware' and not a dead-end solution.

I mean he tried using ads in the past within the program, and he has been monetizing his site with ads since I remember; it has good traffic, so in theory the ads revenue shouldn't be bad. There have also been volunteers who donated until now. This year he's making some profit from FM sales and from downloads as well. I'm not implying he's by any means rich because of the above, but you get my point of having a choice.
This post was edited by stam (2012-01-04 03:30, 5 years ago)
Whatever happens in your every day life, coming here should be an escape from it; so cheer up and talk FM :)
Scotty_M's avatar Group Scotty_M 2012-01-04 16:32
gb 6 posts joined Jan 04, 2012
#38990 payne 007 : i use the latest fmrte without donating,just copy the key he put on his site for the trial version anytime you want to edit,it'll save!....lol

Ha Ha i done the exact same thing and its activates perfectly :)

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