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Tactic Opinion

Started on 2 July 2020 by shive1
Latest Reply on 4 July 2020 by H e n d y
  • POSTS15
  • VIEWS1027
 
Hey there! I'm submitting my cuurent tactic with Everton for your review. I'm doing alright with it, but I've never had it analyzed by others who know more than I do. Please let me know how it can be improved. Thank you.




Si49's avatar Group Si49
2 monthsEdited
Hi Shive1,

Here's my thoughts on your system & what I would personally do differently. This is based on my own interpretation & experience of what works/doesn't work in the match engine.

Starting with your player roles and style I would straight away turn off the Play Out of Defence and change the two centre halves to CB's rather than BPD's. Playing how you have it now while pretty at times is asking for trouble.

I like your midfield 3 set up. Your BWMD is perfect for the DLPS & B2B further ahead. One little change I would make here is the DLPS to RPM as the B2B will forge forward leaving a space for the RPM to roam in to looking for the ball. The DPS is slightly more static.

Full backs wise I see you are asking the team to focus Coleman as the overlap with a IFS.... I never use the overlap/underlap function. With your sitting BWMD I would get both full backs on FBS or WBD, this way they would both contribute going forward & give your midfield playmaker more options.

I'll come on to your front three later. For now let's look at your TI's.... In possession I love your tempo and short passing, it's the very same combination I use. Understand though that this is highish tempo setting you are putting on your team & yet you also have Creative Freedom set to disciplined. In effect your saying here try the overlap to Coleman very quickly all the time & if it doesn't work then hey we'll just try it again... & again... & again. Creative Freedom to me is automatic Plan B. If you have this turned on disciplined then you have no plan B. You're telling your players to stick to Plan A, always. Now if Plan A works this is fine but your plan A is very regimented to the overlapping right back. I always have Creative Freedom on Be More Expressive, especially in the Premier league/high leagues where the players have the decisions & ability to make it work.

Dribble less is on, I always leave this on neutral. There's no need for either setting if you have creative freedom as BME. Work Ball in to Box I don't like either. Again I use the BME on Creative Freedom to let my players decide the best outcome. In essence I'm saying I trust you to make the right decisions.

Reference Pass into Space you have this off yet you have a standard defensive line which means you will be drawing out their defence more. If you like this defensive line then I would be tempted to highlight Pass into Space. You have Kean up top as a PF. I would make him a AF to make use of a potential ball over the top from your play making centre mid. Attacking width is OK where it is, I may go one notch wider though.

In transition TI's you are counter pressing & counter. These are pretty typical, I see them all the time from created tactics and the most aggressive settings.... Yet you have standard LOE & basic pressing out of possession. Your counter press will be very minimal, if you like your standard LOE than I would take counter press off & leave it neutral. They don't really work together I know but why counter press if you aren't pressing more all the time, it's a confusing request to your players.

Your counter highlight is fine where it is, as you are on a Positive mentality your team will naturally counter anyway, particularly with that B2B midfielder. No harm in leaving this on though as your BWMD will cover nicely. For distribution you are asking the team to play out of defence with BPD's yet you aren't giving them the ball from the keeper. I know I've recommended removing the BDP's and play out of defence but if you want to keep it then you really should be giving them the ball via short keeper distribution.

Your out of possession TI's I see the most issues... The most obvious is the Use Offiside trap with basic pressing & only the B2B midfielder actually pressing the midfield. Your BWMD in the def mid strata will only press when the LOE is deeply engaged as he's the deepest sitting midfielder, by that point the oppo midfield will have gained their ground for the pass through your defence. I would lose the offside trap or severely raise the pressing. I have pressing one notch from the highest always. You actual engagement & def lines are OK, it's a little low for me on both but not game breaking. I would raise the pressing though, definitely. In essence here you are putting pressure on your back 4 by playing a offside trap but not putting enough pressure on the pass through. I know you have defend narrow which helps negate the through ball/ball over the top & the sweeper keeper, it's still inviting trouble to me though. There's no harm in pressing more when the LOE is reached, your defence would benefit from it, as would your counter attack.

You are defending narrow yet you have a def mid & no wide midfielders, but wingers. I think your full backs are under too much pressure out wide. Your def. mid will protect your centre backs yet your full backs have no help in front of them until the att mid strata. I can see good wingers & attacking fullbacks giving you real problems. I would change the width to normal & perhaps even wide against teams with very good wingers/wide play. One of the hardest AI styles to counter in FM20 as a human manager is the 4-3-3 with attacking full backs. You are set up here to suffer from that very style.

Use tighter marking is off... Ok, you are playing an offside trap so that makes sense. Prevent short GK distribution in on.. now this is a problem with your LOE & press. You are preventing short distribution or at least trying to (It doesn't work half the time, trust me) & then your mid LOE & neutral press is forcing your press back. This makes little sense to me. You are asking your team to counter press & prevent distribution yet then don't really press with the standard LOE. It's almost like you want to press but then you don't. There's almost double instructions there. Now this can work I guess but I would rather give the team a clear message. Go press always & get the ball or sit and soak with a lower block & counter. You are between the two here in my opinion.

Finally your front 3... In a 4-3-3 your attacking set up has to be more perfect than in say a 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2. The 4-4-2 as we know is very vanilla & the 4-2-3-1 gives you the extra attacking player from the basic shape. So with your forwards and in particular your wide players you need to be open to change & more importantly see when that change is required.

Now I hate the role of inside forward, detest it. If you have opposite footed players on the wing use inverted winger instead. For a same side footed winger use the winger role. don't bother with T, Ram or AP, we need some directness and drive from the wide men. You are playing a positive mentality with counter attack so your wingers will naturally attack... plus you need some cover for your full backs & your B2B will join the attack... so I would have your wide men, whatever role you select on support rather than attack duty. Now I get that might seem too defensive a request but I have recommended you turn on the Creative Freedom which will return some attacking intent... Plus we don't want them sitting too high as we wan't to give your playmaker in midfield a few more options than launch it over the top, remember the short passing and fast tempo, support roles in the wings support this better. If you need the change as I mentioned then go to attack duty on the wings and more direct with the passing. This is more your direct counter attack set up.

Finally then what I would definitely change... & then possible change.

Defintiely change -
1. Lose the rhs overlap
2. Turn on Creative Freedom
3. Decide if you want to press or not then commit to it, you are between the two avenues here. If you like create a variation of both and switch between the two depending on opposition & if you are favorite/underdog.
4. Out of possession TI's, in general I would change a lot there based on your pressing decision.

Possibly change -
1. Playing out from the back
2. Wide men to support duty rather than attack
3. DLPS to RPM

Hope I wasn't too critical, I actually like a lot of your set up & what you have going on. I love your midfield build, you really seem to get that nearly perfect. Really like the tempo/passing as well. I've seen way way way worse tactics than this.

I'll end with some final thoughts as well, ... You are playing as Everton who while a strong Prem side you won't always be the favourite. You will definitely need a second tactic to this one against the very best sides until you can match them player for player. As I eluded to earlier the top teams (Liverpool/City/Chelsea/Utd) will throw their wide play at you with crazy attacking full backs and very very direct wingers. To stop this you need to tighten that midfield support for your full backs. I would have a 4-1-4-1 basic shape as a back up formation to this 4-3-3 for these occasions. In this 4-1-4-1 your full backs would be set to FBD and your wide midfielders WMS or WS/IWS. This shape would help you sit and soak the bigger teams pressure and assist your counter attack.

Hope I helped a little, if you have any questions please ask away.
Hi Shive1,
Like Si49, I would recommend some changes here so that you can have more logical flow and better compliment your current system.

Formation
Defence:
I would recommend to have both FB to Automatic and that should be fine. Ball playing defenders are great and I would recommend that you can have 1 or both centre backs as BPD….they work great for me.

As for your keeper, if your happy with a SK then ok but I don’t fell it is essential to have. A standard keeper also works fine.

Great to see that coleman and richarlison have a great connection.


Midfield:
Bravo it looks great from a tactically point of view.

Only thing I would change, for games when you are the favourite, is to have 1 of the 2 centre midfielders attacking instead of both on support.

As long as the players fit the system / style of play, you should be fine here mate.


Attack:
I do use an Inside Forward, maybe not all the time but at least 60-65% of the time. However, only on 1 side (Left) and the other side is a Winger attack.

Maybe for you it could work the other way around with richarlison looking comfortable in that role / position.
As for the rest of it…Kean like Haaland is great in the PF role but also you can play them at CF and they still score goals.
I love Kean and was very close to buying him for a lot of money.


Team Instructions
In Possession:

I would have yes to, pass in to space and play for set pieces….always a nice bonus and key for using Kean’s speed behind defenders.
Have some timewasting …your players are not machines and need some rest.
Play-into-box is cool and I use it but I also use hit-early-cross with shoot on sight. It all depends how the match develops and what I see working.

As for passing style and tempo, that all depends on what you like. (I like passing more direct and tempo as standard)


In transition:
I re-group as oppose to counter-press but if that better fit your style then don’t change it.
The biggest area here for consideration is Distribution. You have nothing marked. I always like to play a quick distribution and to my playmakers or over the oppositions defence. That is complimented via long kicks.

I am sure you will find a winning formula that works for you and the Everton team you have.


Out of possession:
Biggest thing for me here is the Defensive width…. Narrow is dangerous I would have standard.
I like your standard lines of engagement.

The tackling should be stay on feet in my opinion, but so far you have nothing marked.
The prevent short goal-kicks is something that I think is not worth worrying about but that is for you to decide.

I can see you that you are playing in season 2 – 2020/21
How was season 1 and what has been good and bad ??...any cup wins or major league position finishes?
Also forgot to say.

For IN POSESSION

Please click:
Run at defense
Be more creative

...give your attacking players freedom and help them express themselves.
lfcfan1892ph's avatar Group lfcfan1892ph
2 monthsEdited
Have you used this for long and is it any good? I see your top of the league so it can't be too bad but would you recommend this to someone? Also does this have any specific player instructions or any sort of man marking, etc.? Asking for a friend
2020-07-03 20:05#275483 lfcfan1892ph : Have you used this for long and is it any good? I see your top of the league so it can't be too bad but would you recommend this to someone? Also does this have any specific player instructions or any sort of man marking, etc.? Asking for a friend

Actually, this is the first season I've used this tactic. I like the security of the DM protecting the CBs. Until now, I've used a 4-2-3-1 with an attacking midfielder. I don't like man marking as it pulls players from their areas of responsibility and can comprimise the defense. If anyone reading this disagrees, please let me know. I am always receptive to constructive criticism.
1
2020-07-03 19:44#275481 H e n d y : Also forgot to say.

For IN POSESSION

Please click:
Run at defense
Be more creative

...give your attacking players freedom and help them express themselves.

Thanks, Hendy. I'll give this a try.
1
I would man mark one player on the opposition, their midfield playmaker.
1
2020-07-03 14:44#275463 Si49 : Hi Shive1,

Here's my thoughts on your system & what I would personally do differently. This is based on my own interpretation & experience of what works/doesn't work in the match engine.

Starting with your player roles and style I would straight away turn off the Play Out of Defence and change the two centre halves to CB's rather than BPD's. Playing how you have it now while pretty at times is asking for trouble.

I like your midfield 3 set up. Your BWMD is perfect for the DLPS & B2B further ahead. One little change I would make here is the DLPS to RPM as the B2B will forge forward leaving a space for the RPM to roam in to looking for the ball. The DPS is slightly more static.

Full backs wise I see you are asking the team to focus Coleman as the overlap with a IFS.... I never use the overlap/underlap function. With your sitting BWMD I would get both full backs on FBS or WBD, this way they would both contribute going forward & give your midfield playmaker more options.

I'll come on to your front three later. For now let's look at your TI's.... In possession I love your tempo and short passing, it's the very same combination I use. Understand though that this is highish tempo setting you are putting on your team & yet you also have Creative Freedom set to disciplined. In effect your saying here try the overlap to Coleman very quickly all the time & if it doesn't work then hey we'll just try it again... & again... & again. Creative Freedom to me is automatic Plan B. If you have this turned on disciplined then you have no plan B. You're telling your players to stick to Plan A, always. Now if Plan A works this is fine but your plan A is very regimented to the overlapping right back. I always have Creative Freedom on Be More Expressive, especially in the Premier league/high leagues where the players have the decisions & ability to make it work.

Dribble less is on, I always leave this on neutral. There's no need for either setting if you have creative freedom as BME. Work Ball in to Box I don't like either. Again I use the BME on Creative Freedom to let my players decide the best outcome. In essence I'm saying I trust you to make the right decisions.

Reference Pass into Space you have this off yet you have a standard defensive line which means you will be drawing out their defence more. If you like this defensive line then I would be tempted to highlight Pass into Space. You have Kean up top as a PF. I would make him a AF to make use of a potential ball over the top from your play making centre mid. Attacking width is OK where it is, I may go one notch wider though.

In transition TI's you are counter pressing & counter. These are pretty typical, I see them all the time from created tactics and the most aggressive settings.... Yet you have standard LOE & basic pressing out of possession. Your counter press will be very minimal, if you like your standard LOE than I would take counter press off & leave it neutral. They don't really work together I know but why counter press if you aren't pressing more all the time, it's a confusing request to your players.

Your counter highlight is fine where it is, as you are on a Positive mentality your team will naturally counter anyway, particularly with that B2B midfielder. No harm in leaving this on though as your BWMD will cover nicely. For distribution you are asking the team to play out of defence with BPD's yet you aren't giving them the ball from the keeper. I know I've recommended removing the BDP's and play out of defence but if you want to keep it then you really should be giving them the ball via short keeper distribution.

Your out of possession TI's I see the most issues... The most obvious is the Use Offiside trap with basic pressing & only the B2B midfielder actually pressing the midfield. Your BWMD in the def mid strata will only press when the LOE is deeply engaged as he's the deepest sitting midfielder, by that point the oppo midfield will have gained their ground for the pass through your defence. I would lose the offside trap or severely raise the pressing. I have pressing one notch from the highest always. You actual engagement & def lines are OK, it's a little low for me on both but not game breaking. I would raise the pressing though, definitely. In essence here you are putting pressure on your back 4 by playing a offside trap but not putting enough pressure on the pass through. I know you have defend narrow which helps negate the through ball/ball over the top & the sweeper keeper, it's still inviting trouble to me though. There's no harm in pressing more when the LOE is reached, your defence would benefit from it, as would your counter attack.

You are defending narrow yet you have a def mid & no wide midfielders, but wingers. I think your full backs are under too much pressure out wide. Your def. mid will protect your centre backs yet your full backs have no help in front of them until the att mid strata. I can see good wingers & attacking fullbacks giving you real problems. I would change the width to normal & perhaps even wide against teams with very good wingers/wide play. One of the hardest AI styles to counter in FM20 as a human manager is the 4-3-3 with attacking full backs. You are set up here to suffer from that very style.

Use tighter marking is off... Ok, you are playing an offside trap so that makes sense. Prevent short GK distribution in on.. now this is a problem with your LOE & press. You are preventing short distribution or at least trying to (It doesn't work half the time, trust me) & then your mid LOE & neutral press is forcing your press back. This makes little sense to me. You are asking your team to counter press & prevent distribution yet then don't really press with the standard LOE. It's almost like you want to press but then you don't. There's almost double instructions there. Now this can work I guess but I would rather give the team a clear message. Go press always & get the ball or sit and soak with a lower block & counter. You are between the two here in my opinion.

Finally your front 3... In a 4-3-3 your attacking set up has to be more perfect than in say a 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2. The 4-4-2 as we know is very vanilla & the 4-2-3-1 gives you the extra attacking player from the basic shape. So with your forwards and in particular your wide players you need to be open to change & more importantly see when that change is required.

Now I hate the role of inside forward, detest it. If you have opposite footed players on the wing use inverted winger instead. For a same side footed winger use the winger role. don't bother with T, Ram or AP, we need some directness and drive from the wide men. You are playing a positive mentality with counter attack so your wingers will naturally attack... plus you need some cover for your full backs & your B2B will join the attack... so I would have your wide men, whatever role you select on support rather than attack duty. Now I get that might seem too defensive a request but I have recommended you turn on the Creative Freedom which will return some attacking intent... Plus we don't want them sitting too high as we wan't to give your playmaker in midfield a few more options than launch it over the top, remember the short passing and fast tempo, support roles in the wings support this better. If you need the change as I mentioned then go to attack duty on the wings and more direct with the passing. This is more your direct counter attack set up.

Finally then what I would definitely change... & then possible change.

Defintiely change -
1. Lose the rhs overlap
2. Turn on Creative Freedom
3. Decide if you want to press or not then commit to it, you are between the two avenues here. If you like create a variation of both and switch between the two depending on opposition & if you are favorite/underdog.
4. Out of possession TI's, in general I would change a lot there based on your pressing decision.

Possibly change -
1. Playing out from the back
2. Wide men to support duty rather than attack
3. DLPS to RPM

Hope I wasn't too critical, I actually like a lot of your set up & what you have going on. I love your midfield build, you really seem to get that nearly perfect. Really like the tempo/passing as well. I've seen way way way worse tactics than this.

I'll end with some final thoughts as well, ... You are playing as Everton who while a strong Prem side you won't always be the favourite. You will definitely need a second tactic to this one against the very best sides until you can match them player for player. As I eluded to earlier the top teams (Liverpool/City/Chelsea/Utd) will throw their wide play at you with crazy attacking full backs and very very direct wingers. To stop this you need to tighten that midfield support for your full backs. I would have a 4-1-4-1 basic shape as a back up formation to this 4-3-3 for these occasions. In this 4-1-4-1 your full backs would be set to FBD and your wide midfielders WMS or WS/IWS. This shape would help you sit and soak the bigger teams pressure and assist your counter attack.

Hope I helped a little, if you have any questions please ask away.

I really appreciate the feedback. I'll try your suggestions and report back. Everyone that has replied has been super helpful.
You seem to be doing very well yourself so don't change too much at once. Maybe a little tweak here and there, especially against stronger or equal opposition.

If you are at the point where you can see what is going right/wrong on the pitch then you are well on your way. Identifying the problem is often half the battle. Fixing it is usually just little changes here and there for the situation at hand.
2020-07-03 21:37#275503 Si49 : I would man mark one player on the opposition, their midfield playmaker.

Which player/position would you use to do this?
2020-07-03 22:48#275513 shive1 :
2020-07-03 21:37#275503 Si49 : I would man mark one player on the opposition, their midfield playmaker.

Which player/position would you use to do this?

Your highest sitting central midfielder in your mid/att mid strata's. In your case your B2B centre mid strata line. Get him to man mark the oppo's deepest lying playmaker, usually a DLP.

If the oppo don't play a playmaker that deep then he can mark mark their deepest sitting midfielder.
2020-07-03 19:38#275479 H e n d y : Hi Shive1,

I can see you that you are playing in season 2 – 2020/21
How was season 1 and what has been good and bad ??...any cup wins or major league position finishes?

I finished top half last season, but I wasn't really happy defensively. So I went out and got Florentino Luis to play the DM role and he has made a world of difference. I already had Andre Gomes as a playmaker. Those two are very strong in the center of the field and the entire team is stepping up. I also added Kristoffer Ajer at CB and he has been huge for me back there. He's even scored a few goals in set pieces.
I'm probably not one of the best people to ask about tactics but all I will say is that if your top of the league and your team is playing well and your enjoying yourself you my as well keep it as it is, or at the very least not make pretty big changes to your game. If its working well then you might as well keep changes to the minimum. Not saying you can't change or adapt at all, of course you will have to at some point, but if its working well for now might as well try to keep it going. I like the shape of the team, looks quite solid, definitely going to give this a go myself on my own save and hopefully it works as well for me as it does for you. If you notice anything while playing that you aren't a fan of and know there is a way you change it then of course go for it but if your happy with how it is at the min then keep going
2020-07-04 03:47#275532 shive1 :
2020-07-03 19:38#275479 H e n d y : Hi Shive1,

I can see you that you are playing in season 2 – 2020/21
How was season 1 and what has been good and bad ??...any cup wins or major league position finishes?

I finished top half last season, but I wasn't really happy defensively. So I went out and got Florentino Luis to play the DM role and he has made a world of difference. I already had Andre Gomes as a playmaker. Those two are very strong in the center of the field and the entire team is stepping up. I also added Kristoffer Ajer at CB and he has been huge for me back there. He's even scored a few goals in set pieces.

Mr Ajer is a massive bonus and well done for getting him. I have him and the player is so important for me and my Man United team. Great purchase mate.

Sounds like you have been good with your purchases and invested wisely.......good work :)

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