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Old skool Champ-Manager players finally getting paid-off.

This is a sensitive look at the old versus the new players of the game
Started on 7 July 2020 by H e n d y
Latest Reply on 8 July 2020 by Justice
  • POSTS15
  • VIEWS1291
 
Firstly, I must say that to be a new player does not reflect your age. Old versus new is connect to how long you have been playing champ-manager or FM games.

The reason why the title says ‘paid-off’ is because:

1. Old skool players already know the game engine and how each thing is connected.
2. Old skool players already have a team, established system, way of play and culture they want to develop.
3. Old skool players have seen the AI and game engine grow.
4. Old skool players did not have forums so we learnt by doing! Trial and error.

Also I say ‘paid-off’ because an old skool player can jump on the new FM format / style and very very quickly establish a base, get results and feel comfortable.

I do not wish to offend the young and talented new players. I love you guys. You bring a new exciting passion for the game and it is great. However, we old skool players never had forums to help us and many times, if your friends did not play the game, you had to try and find the answer all on your own.

I remember talking to friends at school and back in the old days it was all about players. Who to buy and Where to find talented players.
Tactics were not spoken about so much but that’s because we had to find our own system and formation so players became a huge topic.

The old skool players would read the bottom of the screen and pray it flashed saying GOAL!!! Now the new FM games have 3D visual matches, which I personally hate and don’t use, but they make the game easier via a physical representation.

I love how the old skool and new skool come together on this game and I really hope we all can succeed.

After joining this forum, I can see myself in many of the comments from both old and new players.

Big hug to you all
Cheers – H e n d y
Gonna be honest... What's the point of this post? You aren't asking a question, you aren't prompting discussion... It does seem very much like you're just trying to say "You young 'uns have it so easy, we're the TRUE players here!". No matter how many times you repeat that that is not your purpose, it very much comes across that way.
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Hi GfxJG,

Ohhh yes, my Favourite English Teacher.
What are my grades? When can I get my report card?

There was no question in my post, in this area you are correct. However, maybe you should look into or Google what prompts a discussion.

The comparison between the old and young will always be controversial and must be addressed with a degree of sensitivity.
Furthermore, upon closer and less emotional analysis of my post perhaps you could see that it is clearly stated at the beginning old versus young is not a reference to age but instead it refers to playing time of the game.
There are many benefits that come with more hours played on this Managerial game and I promise you the older players have made probably every mistake you can imagine.

How many hours have you ‘clocked-up’?
Your profile on here is one of 9 years a member which is impressive but the anger in your posts does surprise me. That said, I must say I love your direct communication style.

Let’s us together run a hypothetical simulation test.
I hoped a discussion would start and people would come forward in the following manner (and this is just an example):

OLD:
1. They would remember funny stories from when playing the earlier games
2. Talk about how the game has changed
3. Discuss the new 3D physical match rooms
4. Talk about the manager avatar feature.
5. Tactical options and how they have developed
6. Express happiness that forums can help an old player returning to the game in the form of helping to set up the actual game \ computer.
7. Comment on the basic fundamentals of player stats presentation and how they have really developed.

YOUNG:
1. They would comment on how they started and when.
2. Talk about looking back and remembering early mistakes
3. Comment on how funny the old games look compared to now (lets be honest the old games are super different and laughable when you compare to the modern FM games)
4. Express happiness for forums that allow comparisons and quick answers to questions.
5. Talk about preferring to stay at home with a 6-pack of beers rather than go out to the pub because you want to win the league (we have all done that :) )

I hope the above clarifies the overall direction that my original post was aiming to go. As you can see the basic feeling-based analysis you made is somewhat off.

Moreover, if you are offended that the OLD have 7 potential points of dicussion and the YOUNG have only 5 points, than that is for you to over come and manage.

Would you be interesed to share you FM story with me? How did you find this game? When did you start playing and have you ever taken a break from it?
I started playing regularly with FM12, but I remember playing stuff like Total Football Manager 2004 (I think it was called that) when I was a kid, so yes, I've played it for a while.

And again, honestly, I don't care what you were trying to say. It just came across very high and mighty "Oh we've been playing for longer, we can discuss the much finer pointers of FM". Sure, you elaborated on that in your comment now, but your original post very much had this vibe about it. If you didn't mean it that way, that's great, no worries then. But it was very easy to read it that way. And remember, communication is only 10% how you meant it to be recieved, and 90% how it actually is recieved.
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You have a good amount of experience with your Football Manager career and that is great. I happy to see you enjoy the game and you don’t mention a break, so I assume you have played every year with the newest version.

Thanks for asking about me.

I have played FM for a very long time. Nearly right from the beginning with Champ Manager. I have also experimented with various other titles on other platforms (for example on the Playstation).
I also played football to a good high level (for example, F.A Youth cup) and a serious ankle injury stop my progress in real life.

Now, going back to your comments.
.....10 people can stand in front of a painting and all see different things.

You do para-phrase me incorrectly but it does give insight into your character and way of thinking. I can only assume that you have a chip-on-your-shoulder from a previous bad experience. Hence, your emotional outbursts.
The world is not 2-tone and there are many shades of grey.

You have a very direct and forthright style which I really honestly love, but how you want to present yourself on here is your decision.

It is an absolute honour and pleasure to be able to pick-up and play such an epic Football Manager game, with such ease and comfort. That is a pay-off from being an old-skool champ manager.

Being able to help the younger managers is as good as getting a salary. The joy it brings to help all who play this amazing game is fantastic.

I am currently playing F1 Manager and it is humbling. I am lost from time to time, and I am taking all the advice from the older players. The old skool cats also enjoy answering all my questions and they appreciate that I am trying to get up to speed as soon as possible.

I can say that my original post was thought provoking but in no way rude (well, maybe for you it was….after all, you took the time to comment about it)
I have spoken with many young and old friends about all things connected to FM… and normally we do so face-to-face and with beers.

It is awesome and always a great evening.
I think you have far too much time on your hands, H e n d y.
"4. Old skool players did not have forums so we learnt by doing! Trial and error."

VERY VERY interesting...People still do plenty of this BUT we still have "Old Skool" players telling us our tactics are wrong lol, though people spend HOURS with trial and error.

some "Old Skool" players love to talk as if they know everything and they have nothing more to learn. Regardless of when you started playing FM, you can know how how the game engine works, as it changes.
so wether i started with Champ Man 4, or FM18, i literally DOES NOT matter, i can have play CM4 but still need to learn more, or started at FM18 and have a very good understand of the game,

just let people enjoy the game they wish to...if tactically it doesn't make sense to you, but the creator was successful, then who are you really to be saying something is wrong. If a someone wants to use a downloaded tactic, then so be it...some people are busy, they don't have the hours to spend on the tactic page
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And the award for most pointless comment goes to Justice, well done mate.

I am shocked as I have read a previous post of yours for example, regarding Youth intake and you did complement what I had posted. I can only assume you have some how been offend by the topics in this post.
Also you have a good standing within this FMScout Forum so again, your ridiculous comment leaves me dumbfounded.

Hahahahah…..absolutely EPIC and finally some real talk.

Firstly RDF, who said I am a traditional old-skool player? Your closing comments seem to attack me yet I have never once said I hate simulators or people who download tactics. You can check all my previous posts. What are you rambling on about at the end of your comment? …. Yep, I am lost mate.

I look at FM like how I approach golf. Swing how you want, just hit the ball to the target….that’s it.

Let’s be honest and look at the biggest confrontations in this game:
1. Old skool VERSUS New skool
2. Simulators VERSUS non-simulators
3. Tactics are everything VERSUS there is a lot more than just tactics in FM
4. I know everything and my way of playing is the best VERSUS Yeah, cool, I am open to hear other styles and whatever works for you…do it.

As you can see in my previous posts. I have never laughed at anyone or put anyone down. I have never said that their way is stupid or looked to change people’s ideas of how to play, I just give an opinion or try to help them with what I think they want to achieve.

Your passionate comments mean you have had problems with the ‘other side’. I have seen 2 of my best friends physically fight over tactics and transfers. It’s crazy.

I am the guy drinking a beer laughing saying ‘you don’t like the way I play or the slow speed I play at, cool…. Hahaha…. Its my save so I can do whatever the f*** I want’

I was hoping to have an open and civil debate about the old and new players plus all the things that brings in the FM world.
I can see that maybe emotions are way too high for that which is a shame. When I read other posts and comments it is very easy to see there are strong feelings about such things.

Also a little side comment about hours and hours and trial by error.
...Do you play poker...if yes, then you already know. Now you can learn the game a lot quicker than in the old days when there was no real help available.
Take a moment and think about it. In the Champ manager days things were very very different.... you have to admit that.
An old poker player can feel very comfortable at any poker table because he knows himself, his game, what he wants to do and how he will try to do it. With time they make adjustments if needed.

Take away your emotion and analyse what i write...i am not bashing or beating down on anyone!
2020-07-08 07:11#275801 H e n d y :
You do para-phrase me incorrectly but it does give insight into your character and way of thinking. I can only assume that you have a chip-on-your-shoulder from a previous bad experience. Hence, your emotional outbursts.
The world is not 2-tone and there are many shades of grey.

You have a very direct and forthright style which I really honestly love, but how you want to present yourself on here is your decision.


I have to say, Hendy, that goes for all.
Analyzing other people's posts and assuming "they have a chip-on-their-shoulder, from a previously bad experience", is not how I would want to show myself.
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2020-07-08 12:23#275817 Rober :
2020-07-08 07:11#275801 H e n d y :
You do para-phrase me incorrectly but it does give insight into your character and way of thinking. I can only assume that you have a chip-on-your-shoulder from a previous bad experience. Hence, your emotional outbursts.
The world is not 2-tone and there are many shades of grey.

You have a very direct and forthright style which I really honestly love, but how you want to present yourself on here is your decision.


I have to say, Hendy, that goes for all.
Analyzing other people's posts and assuming "they have a chip-on-their-shoulder, from a previously bad experience", is not how I would want to show myself.

Then why else would he para-phrase me in the manner in which he did ? ...there is obviously a deeper issue which came out in his para-phrasing.
Not to mention his other posts..
Ok, 2 mates of mine are following this thread, one rang me, the other texted me and they want me to add this (I asked them to sign up and join but they are not interested in that)

Misha (Business owner):
Take a CM4 player and a newbie. They both play FM18….who will be comfortable quickest??..... take a moment, yeah, we all know the answer deep down.

The question is not who will have the best tactics or score the most goals or win all the trophies.

Kyle (Engineer):
Respect has to be shown, by both sides, in the process of obtaining data or ‘trial and error’. Think about a modern kitchen with Microwaves and all the electrical gadgets that can help you obtain what you want in a quicker way.
Now compare that to an old kitchen with just basic equipment.

Both kitchens can make a great pizza and both chefs learn their craft.

But remember this ……Take the old chef from the old kitchen and put him in a new kitchen. Sure, he will need to adjust but he already has the fundamentals in place with food/cooking knowledge.
If you feel attacked then apologies but my statements goes for everyone, me included.

Experience in FM doesn't count for much. I would say I'm experienced in the game, I'm not new to it at all, but would be a silly thing for me to say I know more than someone who's recently started playing. Everyone is different.

Nothing about the comments have been uncivil, so please don't try to play victim, that's also not a good look.

I'm an emotional guy, that's my character and will not apologise for that. If you can't accept that then really that's your problem
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No one is playing the victim so your comments are funny here. Probably trying to run on from the Rober comment. (A private PM has been sent to him regarding that comment as well).

Also why are you looking to excuse yourself. No one has asked you to apologies.

Finally your comment:
Experience in FM doesn't count for much. I would say I'm experienced in the game, I'm not new to it at all, but would be a silly thing for me to say I know more than someone who's recently started playing. Everyone is different.

...that comment is absurd and it makes no sense because the old versus new thing is based upon time spent playing the game. Therefore, hours played. Experience is about hours played not how old you are in real life.

...don't put yourself down lad, if a newbie started playing right now, you would know more and be able to help him or her enormously. Plus all players have different skill sets or knowledge ....a recently started player (please quantify) would need a good amount of time to obtain the knowledge you have already got.

Young mechanics are talented, but the old mechanics can still help them develop at all stages of their careers in the garage workshop.

A classic example, you put your reserve goal-keeper in for the meaningless last game of the season because he needs some match fitness.
The season is over, you won the league now you have the FA Cup final .....how many times do we all forget to put back our number 1 goal-keeper??!!...hahahhahah
"your comment feels like an attack" when my comment wasn't an attack on anyone, therefore, you are playing a victim. Yet, you actually attacked someone else for not para-phrasing correcting and claiming they have a deeper issue? is that not an attack, no? lol

nobody talks about age, what are you talking about...FM is a game that focuses on tactical suggestions in real life...just because i have been playing the game for 20+ years, DOES NOT mean i know more tactically than a guy who has played the game for just 3 years, 3 years is still a long time to figure out stuff in FM.

If Guardiola decided to play FM tomorrow, i'd suspect he knows some about tactics. Maybe not how it plays in FM, but considering his tactical know how, he may have an idea and therefore, it would not take him 20+ years to understand what each instruction/role does in FM.

There are guys who have played FM for many many years, but still search for advice. Because like i said, it's also down to the person...people can learn something in 2 years, which may take another 8 years...

also each year, FM may include new features/roles/instructions...so then my 20 years would not count on that particular subject as its completely new for EVERYONE.
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I have locked this topic as I feel that it has been continuing on in bad taste (from all sides). This is a fan site for a video game, let’s try keep this site fun and enjoyable!

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