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Knap tactics hit and miss

Advice sort for whether should adapt tactics or change completely
Started on 26 June 2020 by dmcgrath82
Latest Reply on 8 July 2020 by Si49
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Hey everyone, i have been playing Manager games for more than 10 years but this 2020 is killing me i am lloking for a tactic that has good possession, goal games and not using Offside tactis because i hate any advice for this ? if you can share one of those link i will be so happy
2020-06-27 20:40#275013 Rober :
2020-06-26 12:09#274891 dmcgrath82 : Hi,
Knaps tactics are fantastic I think we'll all agree. However I have swapped Gothenburg (where Bad Company worked brilliantly) to Lazio using a Beowulf 4231 or black echo 4231 as these are supposedly more underdog tactics. However, finding mt team struggling to score and making some real howlers. Not expecting to win every game. Does it take time for new team to get used to new managers tactics?

It takes time, but Lazio is not a underdog team! :)

It's one of the more freescoring teams on the game.

Use kashmir p111 MU or fire and water p103.

Tried fire and water and we'r have started season shockingly, w3 l3, admittedly, lost against Milan and Juve, which I can admit is quite likely, and lost away to Atalanta, who aren't bad.
But seem to get hit on counter all the time with this tactic.
Do people pt individual player instructions on/listen to assisstant or just let tactics close players down as a v.pressing tactic anyway
Si49's avatar Group Si49
2 monthsEdited
Knap's tactics are overly attacking intent wise in the extreme, they are designed to put the foot on the throat of the opposition by constantly attacking & in some cases overloading dependent on formation.

A good counter attacking team who are built to counter attack will always pick you off if you don't adjust.This is what pre-match is for, see their line up & anticipate any perceived difficulties.

I don't want to harp on about plug n' play again but let's just say to use a 'plug n' play' tactic & then question why it isn't working and want to know what to fix tells me you are ready to delve deeper in to the tactics engine than 'plug n' play'.
2020-07-07 07:52#275728 Si49 : Knap's tactics are overly attacking intent wise in the extreme, they are designed to put the foot on the throat of the opposition by constantly attacking & in some cases overloading dependent on formation.

A good counter attacking team who are built to counter attack will always pick you off if you don't adjust.This is what pre-match is for, see their line up & anticipate any perceived difficulties.

I don't want to harp on about plug n' play again but let's just say to use a 'plug n' play' tactic & then question why it isn't working and want to know what to fix tells me you are ready to delve deeper in to the tactics engine than 'plug n' play'.

As I seem to be struggling against the likes of Milans, Napoli and Juve away and home sometimes, would you tweak the (Fire and water using at the mo) to say positive mentality and reduce FBs overlap and make them defensive rather than support?
I feel when I use/create my own tactics that I tend to have a more cautious approach, which works sometimes away against biggest teams and in Europe, but tends to put team under a lot of pressure. Maybe I overt think the tactics to much?
Si49's avatar Group Si49
2 monthsEdited
2020-07-07 12:43#275756 dmcgrath82 : As I seem to be struggling against the likes of Milans, Napoli and Juve away and home sometimes, would you tweak the (Fire and water using at the mo) to say positive mentality and reduce FBs overlap and make them defensive rather than support?
I feel when I use/create my own tactics that I tend to have a more cautious approach, which works sometimes away against biggest teams and in Europe, but tends to put team under a lot of pressure. Maybe I overt think the tactics to much?

This is my take on the situation you have described. Note that others may differ.

Mentality changes won't do too much if the players have attacking or supporting roles, they will still vacate their assigned position. A wing back attack on any mentality will still attack, he will just attack less so on a defensive mentality then on an attacking one.

With the above paragraph fresh in your mind now bear in mind that in order to have consistent tactical success in FM20 you cannot really afford to drop your team mentality any lower than Positive. The match engine is 'bent' towards the Positive and Attacking mentalities. You'll notice the vast majority of 'plug n' play' tactics have these two mentalities.

So how do we fix this.... We need to play more defensive roles on Positive or Attacking mentalities. On these mentalities the roles aren't necessarily defensive, they are more what I would call 'holding'.

I'm critical of many formations, mainly because they contain far too many support & attacking roles, particularly in the areas where you need a balance with defensive roles for positive & attacking mentalities.

Still with me? Good.... So the answer is more defensive roles for players on the more attacking mentalities where a defensive role would help with your actual situation. Your actual situation changes from game to game as you study the oppositions general strength of team/squad & their shape/formation.

You know when your assistant manager tells you pre-game it might be a good idea to lower the mentality... This is a hint that the match engine believes the oppo are a strong match for you. Ideally you should then look at their set up compared to yours & you can see where you might, the word is might, struggle.

As an example - You are playing against Liverpool who under Klopp are religiously a 4-3-3 GG press with two lethal inside forwards and two crazy attacking full backs... however their centre midfield in general sits & just helps the flow of the game. So where do you think the danger is? Yep, the flanks.

The above is where your lovely 'plug n' play' tactic comes totally unstuck. You are set up with attacking full backs on support or attack duty and wingers who are inverting. Now this will beat 90% of teams you face as the skill of your players and your mentality drowns them out of the game.... But Liverpool also play a 'plug n' play' tactic. They have the same aggressive set up you have & have similar skilled players to you. In that case in FM possibly you cannot fight this fire with fire, these are the match up's you will possibly lose or come unstuck in tactics wise.

So, we have to bite our lip, admit defeat and make enough tactically relevant changes for this game that doesn't effect our mentality or familiarity. This is the the true skill of understanding tactics in FM, making those correct changes pre-game & even during the game to positively effect the outcome.

I've gone on a fair bit here but if you want to know more then recommend a PM conversation.
Rober's avatar Group Rober
2 monthsEdited
2020-07-05 17:02#275632 ThomasHK1979 : In every Knap 4231 tactic the AML and AMR is set as wingers. Is it even possible to use IW or IF in this system and make them perform like when they are set as wingers? I want them to score and assist as much as possible.

Do anyone have som tips for personal instructions to my AML and AMR when I set them as IW in a 4231 system?

WIngers work well on this ME, best they work further down on the pitch. Which is why you don't see as many 4231s as normal this year.

This is because for some reason MR/ML seems to be OP for this ME. The same goes for the AMc position. So you get a lot of tactics with those combinations, then it's a matter of finding the best set up for the rest of the positions/roles to match this.

Tactics can work with AML/AMR. But most are as you say with wingers.
Generally I find inverted wingers to work better than inverted forwards though.

For example we did a YT-vid with with Espanyol here on Scout, the Black Echo 4231 brought Espanyol to second place first season, no signings. Only 1p behind the winners.
But that also had wingers.
@Rober

MR & ML are definitely OP. Most 4-2-3-1's would actually be more effective 4-4-1-1 as a base shape. I find wide playmakers on attack duty totally OP at times.
I must admit I have not used them a lot this ME, what would you pair those with?

I need something new as I feel I have exhausted most options on this ME.
Well, those I want to use anyway.
Si49's avatar Group Si49
2 monthsEdited
As they cut in and naturally 'sit' in the AM strata they actually play a lot like MezA's in the attacking transition.

I would use them with two sitting defensive midfielders. One a BWMD, one DLPD/CMD and then have full backs/wing backs pushing forward.

They are playmakers so are ball magnets, which means they need running options. They actually force a shape or build down a particular style but it's a style that works very well as they can be so OP.

They also enable one of the most fun tactical elements in FM which is hardly ever used, the wing overload. They are a perfect overload role as their instincts are so playmaker attacking yet they roam with lethal attacking intent, no other role does this as well.

AP's drop deep as do DLP's & Enganche's. RPM's start too deep and don't actually roam enough. Treq's aren't 'busy' enough & Mez's start in the middle and roam in to channels.

The DM strata roles of Regista & Volante while fun don't have the freedom of the WPA as they have more defensive responsibility.

They really are fascinating roles to build around.
Sorry to sound thick, follow all the positions you are talking about, bar OP, what is this?
Overpowered my friend. Try a 4-4-1-1 with WPA's, FBA's & Defensive centre mids. The WPA's are nuts.

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